Nov 19th, 2009
Psalm 109:8
UPDATE 11/20: Please see the updated Psalm 109:8 post. Thanks, all, for your civil input on this heated topic.
Over the last 10 years, we at CafePress have become accustomed to the T-shirt being a springboard for people to express their views – including those that are political, religious and various combinations of the two. The discussions that result from these designs can initiate healthy political dialogue or debate and, sometimes, strong criticism.
The past couple of days have illustrated this point rather clearly, as user-designed merchandise with “Pray for Obama – Psalm 109:8” has come to public attention.
When folks started talking about the Obama Psalm 109:8 merchandise, we weren’t particularly shocked to find that a T-shirt had caused heated political discourse. What did catch our attention, though, were the folks claiming that Psalm 109:8 was being used to advocate Barack Obama’s assassination.
We take our Content Usage policy seriously here, and no content that advocates the harming of any human being is acceptable. But is that what Psalm 109:8 is trying to convey in the context of a T-shirt?
Psalm 109:8 states: Let his days be few; Let another take his office.
To date we have treated these designs much in the same way we took the “No W” and “Impeach Bush” merchandise. But does it mean something more?
As the leaders in User Generated Commerce we strive to manage our content in a way that protects self-expression and free speech, while also making sure that we’re not allowing the promotion of violence.
Sometimes, though, iconography and words can take on new meaning over time – and this is often as a result of public discourse. If we see that the overall public discourse has determined that the meaning of this use of Psalm 109:8 goes beyond it’s literal meaning, and is being construed as threatening to the President, we will revisit our decision to allow the designs.
We’d love for you to weigh in on the Psalm 109:8 designs:
To see how experts – including representatives from the ACLU and the Anti Defamation League – have weighed in on the subject, check out this article.
Have you looked at the passage in the context of the full psalm? Here’s a paste of Psalm 109:8-13
9 May his children become fatherless,
and his wife a widow.
10 May his children wander as beggars
and be driven from their ruined homes.
11 May creditors seize his entire estate,
and strangers take all he has earned.
12 Let no one be kind to him;
let no one pity his fatherless children.
13 May all his offspring die.
May his family name be blotted out in a single generation.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20109&version=NLT
There’s no mystery as to the intent behind the message when you read the words “fatherless children.”
Then again, what is the intent behind “James 5:1-6″? Seems the designer is fairhanded in his inflammatory bible thumping.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james%205&version=NLT
Pretty entertaining stuff once you get past the moral outrage. Still totally inappropriate to even imply intent to harm the prez.
To Cafe Press:
You know this is wrong.
Profit should not be valued over decency and common sense.
Of course this is inflammatory and threatening to our President…it plays to those who clearly wish him harm.
And with threats to him already so great…why would you participate in this?
This is scary, especially when you read the very next verse:
“9 Let his children be fatherless
And his wife a widow.”
Comparing it to conventional political satire items is wildly dishonest. I am totally disgusted with CafePress for keeping these items on the site. It’s beyond the pale, and I will never do business here again if these items stay up. You people should be ashamed.
I want to change my vote–wish you had this option.
Once I read the Christian Science Monitor piece you link to and found out the sentence that FOLLOWS what you quote, it’s clearly inflammatory. From the article: “But the verse immediately following the psalm referenced is a bit more ominous: ‘Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.’”
This is important context for fully understanding the biblical reference, and I wish you had included it in this brief description with the poll.
@BarbChamberlain
You are being willfully obtuse when you don’t look at this verse in context. The very next verse, 109:9, says, “Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.” To be clear, the intent of those producing this merchandise is to loudly dogwhistle that President Obama should not only be removed from office, he should be killed. How in the world is this comparable to “Impeach Bush” or “No W?” How disingeuous of you and how utterly disappointing.
Ok, now see, THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH AMERICA! I am a black, former Obama delegate turned FREEDOM FIGHTER PATRIOT, and even if we don’t LIKE what people have to say, WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY IT DAMIT! … AND carry GUNS while I’m at it, Newark NJ Mayor COREY BOOKER!!!
These 85% of respondents really reflect the low intellect of the American Public.
‘God’ Help us all!
I think this merchandise is appalling. It is no more ambiguous than a man with a gun toting a sign about watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants, or the hanging of an effigy. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
I guess Timothy McVeigh’s t-shirt the day he bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City was alright with you, too. Maybe you should post a poll.
I will never buy any merchandise from your site.
This is no mere political statement. It is not wishing for a peaceful and democratic process of removing a President from his office.
“Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.”
It is literally wishing him dead.
If this is not offensive, I do not know what it is. Cafe Press as a private enterprise has every power to decide what to sell or not. We as a consumer has as much of a right to make it aware to you how offensive and inconsiderate your decision is to continue carrying this item.
To give equal platform to scientist and flat earthers is not being “fair and balanced,” To placate those that are crazy and hateful and thinking that is a progressive thing to do is downright stupid business decision.
Sorry Cafe Press, you are wrong and continue to be wrong. Reconsider.
The Holy Scripture should not be used flippantly as a scrapbook, but cited reverently and in context by those who claim to adhere to it. And the context of Psalm 109 is ghastly – it’s about the unrighteous people prosecuting a righteous man, desiring to kill him and ruin his family. To wit,
8 Let his days be few;
and let another take his office. Acts 1.20
9 Let his children be fatherless,
and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg:
let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath;
and let the strangers spoil his labor.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him:
neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
The claim of the owners of this blog that THE LITERAL MEANING of these words is anything but wishing DEATH AND RUIN upon the one who they address is blasphemous rank hypocrisy.
Shame on you, and may the Lord forgive you.
[...] Go to this poll and vote for them to remove the [...]
The next verse reads: “May his children be orphans and his wife a widow.”
Of course it’s about assassination.
Impeachment and calling for God to kill the President of the United States are completely different things, and the fact that CafePress somehow does not see that disturbs me. As long as you continue selling items calling for assassination, rest assured that I will never buy anything from your website again. You should be ashamed of yourselves, and so should the sick, so-called Christian who thought this was funny. Somehow I doubt God would find it as hilarious as they.
It’s the next line about fatherless children and a widow wife. This is code for a violent act.
you’ve made a sadly superficial assessment.
right wingers are highly practiced at masking their repugnant intent with “coded” language, since overt expressions of racism, sexism etc. have been expelled beyond the pale of acceptable public discourse.
and right wing politicians and demagogues frequently employ these terms as “dog whistles” – superficially innocent signals to their narrow extremist base, which pass unrecognized by most people.
the reference to 109:8 *is* such a dog-whistle. superficially, it’s just a call to pray that President Obama is not re-elected.
no doubt many of the faithful will take it as a more hostile cue: that they should pray for a misfortune to befall the President such that he cannot even complete his Constitutionally defined first full term. I don’t care what anyone religionist *prays* for, since it is a meaningless, futile act of the deluded.
however, you are ignoring the following line of this Psalm, which transcends on the first line’s ambiguously political component that “he lose his office” within a “few days” with a wish that “he” (clearly in these slogans, President Obama) leave his wife a widow, and his children dispossessed.
with this bereavement context, there is then no doubt that when the Psalmist, and thus your customer, cites “Let his days be few”, this is not calling for some mere political misadventure — it is CALLING FOR THE PREMATURE DEATH OF THE PRESIDENT.
it is incitement to assassination. and assassination is all too real a possibility for US Presidents. we have a population armed to the teeth, and there are plenty of psychotics for whom such cues can be all that’s needed to unleash violent action.
in the context of the larger cultural context right now, with citizens turning up at public events where the President is attending, armed to the teeth and carrying banners with the same quote “the Tree of Liberty must from time to time be refreshed by the blood of tyrants” Timothy McVeigh wore for the occasion of the Oklahoma bombing; where the 7×24 propaganda channel of Fox News and Hate radio are pumping out an ever-increasing torrent of hatred and incitement; where the US Secret Service is being swamped with unprecedented levels of threats to the President’s life; this CANNOT responsibly be ignored.
if you allow this, and President Obama should be assassinated, you will have his blood on your hands, individually and collectively. I urge you to just think about that for a little bit longer, and reconsider your decision.
I’m sorry that you feel you have to leave it up to a consensus of people to acknowledge that something is WRONG. The moment you second guessed your earlier decision to halt the sale of hatred, advocating for assassination of a POTUS, that is the moment that you truly lost. I am new to online shopping, but you’ll never know this about me first-hand. We could have been more than friends…
Good luck selling your wares to the haters. I hear that they’re pretty tight-fisted.
I am all for free speech but this goes above and beyond. It is calling for the president to die. Enough is enough. In the end I became a non Bush supporter but never would I have supported calling for his death. It has to be pulled or I will no longer go to your site. This is beyond anything that I have seen. This is not just democrat or republican, they are calling for him to die and his wife to be a widow.
Pamela Harris
I seriously hope those that those anti-christian messages using Psalm 109 are being investigated by the government.
Far too many people are irrationally angered by the Obama presidency, many of them driven by bigotry and hate. In this context, it is irresponsible for CafePress to stoke the fire with the message that Obama should be removed from office, as the clear implication is that such removal would not be peaceable. “Impeach Bush” is not comparable, as many observers agree that the Bush administration likely performed acts in contravention of the Constitution; whereas the people calling for Obama’s extraction from office deny flatly that he is an American based on forged “evidence”. Please remove this product from your website. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
In addition to carrying Psalm 109:8 you should also carry John 8:44 merchandise which clearly refers to Rupert Murdoch and all Fox News & crew.
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
listen
it says
Let his days be few [in number]. Let someone else take his position.
and no other translation allows for mistake, ti calls for the death of a public leader and his replacement
there is not if buts or ands, its christians being evil, the pure evil the yare, pissed off that this president dosen’t give them same special treament most other presidents did
its obama keeping religion out of the goverment, and their pissed about it, should obama come under fire, christians, and this site, will be held responsible for promoting the assasination of a president!
Yes, pray that Obama decides to help set up the New JerUSAlem as described at my website.
“Overly inflammatory and inappropriate” is a gross understatement. In light of the actions and words of many far-right, antigovernment and/or racist people over the past two years (during the campaign and after Mr. Obama’s election), you should be able to recognize how extreme this statement is and how thinly veiled the threat.
Neither my husband nor I will be making any more purchases from Cafe Press until these items are removed from your inventory, and I will be suggesting to all my friends and acquaintances that they follow suit.
Denise Anderson
Kentucky
In addition to carrying Psalm 109:8 merchandise you should also carry John 8:44 merchandise which clearly refers to Rupert Murdoch and all Fox News & crew.
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
i will wait to see your decision about Psalm 109:8 ….and in fairness, the verse immediately following the psalm referenced is a bit more ominous: “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”
The Psalm must be read in context:
“May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow”
Anyone with any common sense, who reads this Psalm in context, will come to the same conclusion that thousands of us already have… it’s a call for violence against a sitting President. “Impeach Bush” is quite a bit different than the call by right-wing extremists for “Psalm 109:8″ and it’s implications.
Cafe Press perhaps has a legal right to sell this vile merchandise, but it should also have a moral obligation to do the right thing and put country before profit.
“Let his days be few;
Let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless
And his wife a widow.”
Now why would ANYONE think this was advocating the assassination of President Obama?
I think this post downplays just how nasty Psalm 109 is in this context.
This psalm talks about the “wicked one” at the side of Satan. Moreover, verse 8 is not just about him leaving office early, but dying with terrible consequences for everyone close to him. The rest of the psalm lists those consequences in detail, beginning with verse 9: “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”
Anyone who knows their psalms knows this context, and the meaning of the items with “Psalm 109:8″ is perfectly clear. This is about as close to the line you can walk before advocating assassination of our president, and Cafe Press ought not support it in any way.
A simple reading of the next few verses of Psalm 109 will quickly show that this is bald faced incitement to violence. CafePress’ willingness to serve as a platform for such sentiments is morally reprehensible and a blatant disply of unethical business practive. Absolutely vile.
So where is the link to your “Content Usage policy” in this story?
Do you have a code of conduct?
Do you know where the items you print on were made? Who made them?
How they are paid?
How the workers are treated?
Do they have any rights?
Do you know the environmental impact of the manufacture of these products?
Do you used recycled and biodegradable materials in your shipping?
What is the climate change impact of your shipping?
Do you purchase carbon offsets for that impact?
Does CafePress have any standards?
It seems to me that a corporation that would profit off a call for political violence would also be one without a Code of Conduct or knowledge of the social and environmental impact of their business.
If I’m wrong here, I would like to see the links. If they exist they are not easy to find on your site.
There is a big difference between “Impeach Bush” and the use of a psalm that wishes death and misery upon a president and his family.
The extremists who design and purchase these t-shirts don’t even have the courage to print the actual words of the psalm on the shirt, do they? Why is that? Why don’t they even print the first sentence or two?
I always thought that Cafe Press was run by people sophisticated enough to realize that.
I don’t need a stupid poll to tell me about free speech issues.
Cafe Press, you disappoint me. This travesty of injustice is not about free speech, this is about fermenting seeds of racism in coded language to promote violence against the President of the United States.
This is not acceptable for any company to support, and is highly insulting to the First Amendment. Your company should feel ashamed of yourselves for trying to shield your desire for profit behind the cloak of free speech. Free speech was never designed to allow people to promote violence.
Shame on you to bowing to sheer evil capitalism and the tyranny of the minority.
FYI, the very next verse, Psalm 109:9, is important to understanding the objection here. “May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.”
This is most definitely a pitch for someone to assassinate a President of The United States. The material should be pulled from Cafe Press. If it is not, the Secret Service should investigate both the vendor and Cafe Press itself.
You’ve got to be kidding me.
You would even consider censoring this design due to purposeful misinterpretation?
I’m pretty sure the 10 Commandments supersede any modern-day, socially and politically skewed interpretation of one Bible verse.
One of the purposes of the 10 Commandments is to serve as an infinitely accurate barometer and guide as to how we are to interprete the rest of the Bible.
Thou shalt not kill means the same thing today as it always has so to insinuate that the utilization of Psalm 109:8 supports killing anyone is ridiculous and equally offensive to those who hold the Bible in high regard.
You do realize that the next verse is:
May his children be fatherless;and his wife a widow.
Yea that is the same as “Impeach Bush”. (FacePalm) False equivalencies have been the goto defense of Republicans lately and someone has to call them on it.
it is absolutely ridiculous that this is even a question. Cafepress should not be hosting materials that encourage violence against ANYONE, let alone our President.
I don’t know whether the people who are making and buying these things hate America or Christianity more, but I won’t be buying anything from Cafepress as long as these disgusting things remain up.
I’m shocked that this post omits the most crucial piece of information in this debate. The problem with this slogan is not the text of Psalm 109:8 itself; it’s the text of the verse that follows it, Psalm 109:9, the continuation of the line of poetry in the Hebrew: “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.” THAT’S the problematic part, and that’s what “Psalm 109:8″ is saying without really saying.
You need to include that information in this post if you truly want to give people the whole story.
Read the verse that follows: “Let his children be fatherless and his wife be a widow.”
This is a thinly veiled call to kill the President of the United States.
I think your commentary is misleading since it does not mention that immediately following in Psalm 109:9 it continues: “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow”.
Whipping people into a fearful frenzy and then dog whistling that they should kill the president is over the top.
By the way…calling for the impeachment of a president is referring to a legal process. Calling for an assassination -not so much.
lest we all think this is a tempest in a teapot, don’t forget the next line in the Psalm:
109:9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
THAT is why every good Christian thinks this is a terrible call for harm to Obama.
This bible verse reference is a “dog whistle” to some really crazy people and is absolutely a call to violence against our legally elected President. As long as this merchandise is available, I will not use Cafepress as a vendor. I find this merchandise to be a dangerous incitement to violence. It should not be here.
Why is this even a question? Cafe Press seems to see a moral equivalence between “Impeach Bush” and “Assassinate Barack Obama” – a thinly disguised act of terrorism. If a t-shirt was created which advocated for the death of the owners and principals of Cafe Press, would you be fine with that.
There are only 3 ways to interpret someone’s use of this:
1. They are aware of what they’re saying and of the following verse.
2. They don’t recognize the verse, look it up and encounter the next verse.
3. They don’t know and don’t care and therefore aren’t buying the products with the quote.
In other words anyone who buys these projects knows that they are advocating praying for the death of the President. Talk about debasing the Bible!!! Do they really think it’s funny to use what they claim to be the Word of God to advocate treasonous murder?
Members of the target audience for the shirt know this entire psalm-not just the one line-by heart. They are well aware that Psalm 109:9 reads:
“Let his children become fatherless and his wife a widow.”
That is the point of both David’s Psalm and the message on the t-shirts. David is asking for the death of his foe.
Anyone denying that is intentionally being obtuse.
…and directly after Psalm 109:8
Psalm 109:9
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow
Sorry, but the intent of the psalm is clear: It prays for the death of the leader. Pulling out one verse and saying it stands alone is just a smoke screen.
If I created a bumper sticker that said: “Give me a tree and a rope…” with a photo of Obama, wouldn’t that be considered a threat? But I never actually said I would lynch him! I just want to tie him to the tree, no physical harm, until the end of his term!
Yeah, right. Context is everything. In this case, the context is an unambiguous call for the death of our President.
You can call Obama names, you can eagerly await the next election (the anti-bush bumper sticker with 1/20/09 for example), you can even draw a stupid Hitler mustache, as distasteful as that is. But given the rising tide of extremist violence in our country, advocating physical harm is a step too far.
Oh, yeah? And 108:9? “Let his children be orphans, let his wife be a widow” or whatever.
They’re talking about killing him, and you can’t spin it any other way.
It’s very convenient how you leave out the next verse. “May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.” How is that not a threat?
The next line, Psalm 109.9 asks that “his children be fatherless and his wife be widowed.” That kind of pushes it over the line beyond civil discourse, and far beyond asking for the impeachment of George W Bush.
i buy a lot of stuff from you guys, for gifts and all. and i am damn disappointed at the inclusion of this “call for death to Obama” you so prominently feature for sale.
look, i hated Bushs’ guts, but i never wanted that poor sap to die. never.
so whats up with you guys? a sudden lack of moral compass?
To imply that this is a ‘free speech issue’ is childish on the part of your management. It is a far far distance from ‘Impeach Bush’ to allowing a slogan that encourages the death of our President. There is an entire verse, not just the one line and you well know that. I am not a fan of any politician right now but to encourage violence at this level is truly disturbing. Your site was known for humor, wit and this has none of that. Shame on you for hiding behind the bigots.
Selective Bible reading again? How convenient for you. Given the level of spiritual literacy in the country, I’m going to assume that most people can’t recite a biblical verse selected at random. So people go to Bible, look up the verse which leads them DIRECTLY to a request which can ONLY happen if the man is dead. Is that subtle enough for you? Either the creator of this concept is cherry-picking sacred text for their own personal reasons (as opposed to using sacred text to guide them in living in communion with God) or they want to harm the President of the United States. Neither is very comforting.
No one could say in honesty that the use of this scripture is not promoting violence towards President Obama. It is sickening.
Anyone who would participate by producing ,buying or using/displaying/wearing products imprinted with it,should examine their soul for their true motives.
A responsible person would denounce this strongly.It is NOT simply political commentary.
This country is getting scarier and scarier.
The Secret service reports a 400% increase in threats to POTUS since Omama took office. Stuff like this is trolling for crackpots with guns – it only takes one….
There where no Christians in the Old Testament and there will be no Christians wearing this shirt.
If this subject is not removed from the Cafe Press site, I will be closing my account. Granted, I haven’t used it much, but I intend to.
so if you do not remove the psalm 108:9 message from your site, I will be gone.
The “prayer” can be read no other way than as a prayer for Obama’s assassination. THAT is not only not right, I believe it is illegal.
There is a vast difference between an Impeach Bush message (which only advocates his removal from office for crimes against the state – which, IMO, was completely legit – WMD anyone?) and a message praying for Obama’s destruction/killing.
That CafePress doesn’t get this is beyond me. For shame.
I am glad to see that so many other responders have pointed out the rest of the passage, which you rather disingenuously left out of the original polling info. I am all for free speech, but I also believe that there is a self-guided moral and ethical imperative within which a business must conduct itself. So, if you are happily advocating violence against the president, you have made the right choice. Otherwise, stand up and draw a line. Your customer base eagerly awaits your decision.
Isn’t encouraging the assassination of the President, or any other public figure, or the murder of anyone else, a felony? Why yes, it is.
The one thing EVERYONE has forgotten here is tha Psalm 109:8 is a prophecy of JUDAS ISCAROIT.
Remember him, the guy who BETRAYED Jesus?
This is simply a design for those who feel the current Oval Office Occupant has betrayed the country.
It’s fair political speech. Period.
Get over it.
What part of 109:8 do you people not understand?
Did it say just 109 ?
Did it say 109:9 ?
I find this appalling from the types of people that will take an entire statement from Rush and parrot it back as just “Rush wants Obama to fail”.
But liberal thinking is 180 degrees out of phase with reality. This idiocy is to be expected.
pffft. You guys are just taking it out of context. You’re embarrassing to the intelligent people here.
If it were a threat, they would be using Psalms 108:8-9
Cafepress has sold much more inflammatory items than “NO W”.
Feel free to cave to left wing moon bats crying about “the meaning of a prayer” – how ironic most of them DON’T BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE ANYWAY.
I will be happy to stop buying ANYTHING EVE AGAIN FROM CAFE PRESS if you can the psalm 109 items. I am sure you can make back you money from the obamunists who will be on welfare by the time this “president” is evicted in 2012.
I’m sure Jesus would love the way you’re using the Bible — to pray for political assassination. Yeah, Jesus was all about that. I love all the all-caps screaming by the way.
Yes, it takes a sentence out of context when you read the sentence which comes after it, and further spells out its meaning. Right. Good logic, thanks for explaining it.
So, all that “Bush assassination” garbage (books, films, etc.) was okey-dokey, but this is offensive? Hmmm…
It defies credulity to pretend the originators of this merchandise are engaging in political discourse. Anyone who reads the Bible carefully enough to find Psalm 108:8 also reads carefully enough to know this is a biblical death warrant that combines political animus with religious zealotry. Further, once the objection has been raised, buyers and vendors can hardly protest their continued innocence.
It’s always nice to see people reading their Bibles.
Paslm 109:8 in context clearly asks that God number the days of David’s adversary. So I am shocked that God would ever allow David to say such a prayer, much less allow him to publish it in the Bible of all places.
And why has the Church allowed this Psalm to stand in the Bible for all these centuries?
But seriously, presuming the authors of the shirt meant anything more than to misuse the words of scripture in a clever way, there is a clear distinction between praying to God that a person would die, and advocating that the person be assassinated.
The 2nd would be a crime that would get a person arrested. The first is a statement made by an Elected Democratic Congresswoman, who prayed that a Supreme Court Justice would die young.
In political context, or course, the authors clearly don’t want Obama assassinated, because that would just mean Joe Biden would be President — and if he was killed, we’d have Nancy Pelosi.
No sane person could want THAT to happen. So clearly the authors of the shirt simply want to win back the White House in 2012.
Perhaps Obama needs a shirt with Ps 109:1-2.
“O God, whom I praise,do not remain silent, for wicked and deceitful men have opened their mouths against me; they have spoken against me with lying tongues.”
I can’t think of a better description of the violence-baiting Obama bashers. God IS just and hate will NOT be the last word.
Obama haters suck and enjoy Old Prejudice.
It’s not about the words, it’s about the RIGHT given us per our Bill of Rights to Express freedom of speech!
I agree with 64 and would like to change my vote in the poll, wish I had read that first, the rest of the passage completely changes the context.
I love the hypocritical comments by those who never hesitated to advocate George W. Bush’s demise.
But let a Conservative express a desire to have someone responsible replace the present denizen of the White House, and self-righteousness pours forth from the MoreOn.org crowd!
Thank you for making such a responsible (albeit difficult) decision. You can not divorce the single verse from the clear meaning of the entire Psalm. For those truly familiar with this biblical passage, the underlying message is clear and unmistakable: our President, Barack Obama is an enemy of God, and as such he should meet with a violent death rendering his children fatherless and his wife a widow. Whatever one’s feelings might be toward President Obama, this message is outrageous and unacceptable. Praying for the assasination of a United States President is shameful and un-Christian. You have made an honorable decision and I applaud you for it.
A T-shirt asking for the death, destruction, or early demise of an American President (no matter whom) would be clearly and distinctly viewed as a ‘credible threat’ by Secret Service if a person were to try and attend a Presidential public appearance in any such attire — and I believe, rightly so.
While it very (very) narrowly falls across the line of ‘protected speech’, it’s intent is clear: “Remove this President, by any means necessary.”
This is so wrong on so many levels that it is repulsive. The design, and anything insinuating the same, should be removed from CafePress immediately, and the possibility of censorship for the author/sponsor [no site privileges now or in the future] should be carefully considered.
Psalm 109:8 is simply that: “Let his days be few, let another take his office.” All of those non-Bible reading idiots that like to quote Psalm 109:8-16, should know that is not how Bible quotes work. If one means to imply Psalm 109:8-13, one would WRITE Psalm 109:8-13. If the Bible verse is listed as: Psalm 109:8, then one means to only quote Psalm 109:8. You can always spot those who are ignorant of the Bible. I’m suprised it didn’t burn your hands when you looked up the verse. (Sarcasm for the sarcastically challenged).
Yeh, sure… i certainly remember all that “Bush Assassination” garbage… umm.. wait. No I don’t. Because you are a Liar and just making up stories like every other Right Wing LIAR.
Stop… Just stop now. You know you are wrong and don’t have a foot to stand on so you are making up stories to try to scare your “sheep” RW Bigoted follwers.
STOP
OBAMA IS PRESIDENT
GET THE F OVER IT…
Oh, please, leave it alone. I order from Cafe Press regularly and would hate to see you cave to the spineless left wing. Besides,you are an equal opportunity offender…nothing off limits.
Don’t cave in.
don’t cave in. You are an equal opportunity offender. I buy from your regularly, by the way.
To those citing “religious freedom”, certainly… as cited directly above, in this instance and by the very narrowest of legal definitions, there is an air of free speech here.
Still, that does not give you the right to attempt to force your views on an unsuspecting business OR the general public — in this case, the unsuspecting business is CafePress [who has, to their credit, been acting as an 'honest broker'], and the general public is me, and millions of people like me.
Free speech considerations aside, if assassination is integral part of your religious beliefs then you probably have a lot more in common with Pontious Pilate, the Roman governor who allowed Jesus to be murdered at the behest of the Pharises and the assembled throng… or, for that matter, you are clearly ’spiritual kin’ to the likes of the Taliban and Iran’s radical Mullah’s.
Beyond this, I won’t speculate to your motives except to state that the ‘intent’ of the design in question stinks of virulent, far-right exteremism… and if that’s the extent and content of your spiritual beliefs, then as far as I’m concerned you can shove them up your proverbial concordance and let them rot.
The rest of us at CafePress are tending to matters of ‘civil discourse’, which is quite clearly over your head and beyond your ability to comprehend.
This is clearly another plot by Murphy and her racist bigots at pumapac.org, a republican ratfu****g site started after Hillary lost, the co-founder Pam from San Diego aka DanceswithPumas is the Cafe Press store owner. These people are ridiculously stupid! CLOSE THEIR STORE CAFE PRESS!
The good news about this, is that it finally has got a bunch of LIBS to read the Bible.
I’m glad they are against assasination, hopefully now, they will realize that ABORTION is murder, and get just as passionate about it!!
Clearly, several thousand years before the creation of our democracy, the author of this Psalm thought this would be a good way to suggest you want your currently democratically elected leader to be a “one-termer.” As such, it is ENTIRELY appropriate.
Talk about being able to twist a text until it means what ever the F#$% you want it to.
Now that I’ve spent a moment thinking about this, how does this appeal for assassination resolve itself with the pretty unambiguous “Thou Shalt Not Kill” from the 10 Commandments? Or Jesus’s command to turn the other cheek?
Perhaps people who don’t like Obama need to remember that Jesus’s Father’s kingdom is in heaven and they should render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.
Oh Lord, Please Please Please, Save Me From Your Followers.
Given the current state of race relations and the growing number of hate groups in the U.S., I believe that allowing such merchandise to be hosted on Cafe Press’ website amounts to tacit approval of the potential for violence against the President. There are some ‘unhinged’ people in the extreme fringes of our society who will read into this fire’n brimstone passage and take it as an invitation to kill ~ as in a holy act.
> on 20 Nov 2009 at 11:26 am60GodYouPeopleAre
> Stupid wrote
>
> What part of 109:8 do you people not
> understand?
>
> Did it say just 109 ?
> Did it say 109:9 ?
>
> But liberal thinking is 180 degrees out of > phase with reality. This idiocy is to be
> expected.
no, the idiocy is in the delusion that people _won’t_ take 108:8 out of context and ignore the next line. Are christians allowed to ignore the context of bible verse? How convenient!
> on 20 Nov 2009 at 11:28 am61kenth wrote:
> pffft. You guys are just taking it out of
> context. You’re embarrassing to the
> intelligent people here.
>
> If it were a threat, they would be using
> Psalms 108:8-9
So, I the consensus is in, I guess it _is_ ok to use out of context bible versus for political purposes.
>on 20 Nov 2009 at 11:34 am62joe wrote:
>
> Feel free to cave to left wing moon bats
> crying about “the meaning of a prayer” –
> how ironic most of them DON’T BELIEVE IN
> THE BIBLE ANYWAY.
whether we beleive in the bible or not is irrelevant, we’re worried about the people that _do_, especially fundamentalists that claim you _can’t_ take verse out of context.
> I am sure you can make back you money from > the obamunists who will be on welfare
oh, never mind, I just realized you’re an idiot.
> on 20 Nov 2009 at 11:52 am65Taggart Snyder
> wrote:
>
> So, all that “Bush assassination” garbage
> (books, films, etc.) was okey-dokey, but
> this is offensive? Hmmm…
I don’t suppose you could provide one instance of any publisher or studio that marketed any media that called for the assassination of bush? (hint: there weren’t any, you @sshats are trying to get around inciting violence by saying the quote _should_ be taken out of context. It only shows just how devoid of moral values you really are)
> on 20 Nov 2009 at 11:26 am60GodYouPeopleAre
> Stupid wrote
>
> What part of 109:8 do you people not
> understand?
>
> Did it say just 109 ?
> Did it say 109:9 ?
>
> But liberal thinking is 180 degrees out of > phase with reality. This idiocy is to be
> expected.
no, the idiocy is in the delusion that people _won’t_ take 108:8 out of context and ignore the next line. Are christians allowed to ignore the context of bible verse? How convenient!
> on 20 Nov 2009 at 11:28 am61kenth wrote:
> pffft. You guys are just taking it out of
> context. You’re embarrassing to the
> intelligent people here.
>
> If it were a threat, they would be using
> Psalms 108:8-9
So, I the consensus is in, I guess it _is_ ok to use out of context bible versus for political purposes.
>on 20 Nov 2009 at 11:34 am62joe wrote:
>
> Feel free to cave to left wing moon bats
> crying about “the meaning of a prayer” –
> how ironic most of them DON’T BELIEVE IN
> THE BIBLE ANYWAY.
whether we beleive in the bible or not is irrelevant, we’re worried about the people that _do_, especially fundamentalists that claim you _can’t_ take verse out of context.
> I am sure you can make back you money from > the obamunists who will be on welfare
oh, never mind, I just realized you’re an idiot.
> on 20 Nov 2009 at 11:52 am65Taggart Snyder
> wrote:
>
> So, all that “Bush assassination” garbage
> (books, films, etc.) was okey-dokey, but
> this is offensive? Hmmm…
I don’t suppose you could provide one instance of any publisher or studio that marketed any media that called for the assassination of bush? (hint: there weren’t any, you @sshats are trying to get around inciting violence by saying the quote _should_ be taken out of context. It only shows just how devoid of moral values you really are)
I really appreciate the woman who pointed out that this Psalm is a prophecy about Judas Iscariot.
So, there, this isn’t an inappropriate “prayer” calling for the assassination of the President. Its a statement that President Obama is like the guy who betrayed Christ, leading to his crucification.
Nothing inappropriate about that.
RHETORICAL QUESTION: If God sent himself down here as his own son specifically so he could die for our sins, then wasn’t Judas fulfilling God’s suicide plans? Seems rather heroic to me, to be willing to “betray” your God so he can redeem all of mankind.
All I can say is waaah. We have become a country of whiners. According to the “new government” we have had since January, the first amendment only applies to Obama supporters. When anyone disagrees with Obama they are attacked and criticized. I hope everyone that voted for him is happy now that our country is going down the toilet in a big hurry.
#62: It’s true that I view the NT as a work of fiction. That doesn’t mean the book is harmless to me or anyone else. “His blood be on us and on our children” (Matthew) is from an equally fictional part of the NT. Certainly Jews did not believe it. But Hitler used this passage and other passages in the NT as justification extermination of the Jews.
Also, as in comment #60 and others … as with the passage I just quoted from Matthew, the context is everything. It is clear this Psalm is saying that some bad leader should be wiped from the face of the planet.
As loony as the t-shirt may be, it could be used to incite violence just as the NT has been used in the past. So, rational people must speak out against this campaign.
Anyone who has been paying attention to what is going on, should realize that there are unstable people out there to whom this could really come across as a call to act, to get a rifle and go kill the President. There is a reason for being extra sensitive to this possibility: things of this sort have happened.
It is absolutely unbelievable irresponsibility and shallow mindedness, let alone an incredibly disgusting distortion of Christianity, to not be concerned about this. What has gotten into Christians lately? This is very dark stuff.
You should do NOTHING to encourage any sort of violence. This is my problem with the Bible. I’m supposed to kill those – even my family – who do not subscribe to the faith – Deuteronomy. What are you people thinking. This could be construed as treason!
I hope that people who consider themselves conservative and are saying “liberals” are “whining” about this and that realize the following:
This is not a liberal/conservative issue. Wishing ills to befall our president, leaders, or country as a whole is totally un-American in every sense of the word. I don’t care if it was “liberals” calling Bush a Nazi in ‘04 or teabaggers doing it now, its just the height of ignorance and unpatriotic behavior.
Step outside the echo chambers and remember that we are all Americans.
Sincerely concerned citizen,
Marshall Getto
“The Secret service reports a 400% increase in threats to POTUS since Omama took office. Stuff like this is trolling for crackpots with guns – it only takes one….”
In the JFK assassination there were three shooters who fired FIVE shots at JFK. That lie is probably the biggest in history as it was part of the conspiracy in the murder. Why all the games? It was LBJ and Hoover who pulled that mrder off, it had to be an inside job and it has now been proven that it was.
To prove that to yourself, start by watching the video that shows the correct shooting scenario.
Regards
>It’s fair political speech. Period.>
I’ll grant your right to this sort of ’speech’ if you’ll grant our right to throwing you in prison for threatening the President.
The ACLU incredibly equates this awful message with wishing that Bush would have only one term.
A much more accurate comparison would be,
“Will no one rid me of the meddlesome Archbishop?”
And I wonder how Sasha and Malia feel about this hate masquerading as Christian piety?
With this new depth of nonsense coming from the Far-Reich, I can only think back with utter and sheer glee about the many crying, disappointed, deflated self-proclaimed conservative faces crying and moaning , weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth at their big upset loss of McCain/Palin.
Pray about that suckers.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
I appreciate the discussion, but there is no way that one can take verse 9 out of context and claim it’s merely about short days *in office*; that verse, *alone,* is about the days of life itself being short, or in other words, about death soon. Whether it’s about assassination or praying for God to end someone’s life soon, it’s still a death wish.
One comment claimed it’s a prophecy of Judas. But Christians are certainly split on using the Psalms as prophetic foresight, and that comment didn’t even seem to interpret the passage in the correct context even if it *was* a prophecy of Judas.
There are other parts of the bible that speak of violence: Psalm 137 wishes for the infant children of the enemy to have their heads dashed against rocks. This is not pretty stuff, and the ten commandments did not keep the psalmist from writing such curses.
Clearly, Psalm 109:8 is about a shortened life, and a death-wish.
This doesn’t make Bush assassination paraphernalia right, but that’s not the question at hand.
If the creators of this design consider themselves Christian, this is an epic fail; Christianity bids its followers to love their enemies, not to pray for a shortening of their lives by any means.
>In the JFK assassination there were three shooters who fired FIVE shots at JFK. That lie is probably the biggest in history as it was part of the conspiracy in the murder. Why all the games? It was LBJ and Hoover who pulled that mrder off, it had to be an inside job and it has now been proven that it was.>
And not one shred of evidence of a second or third gunman. Not one shred — after 45 years. That’s one successful conspiracy.
The conservatives live in fear of the unknown, are too immature to deal with social responsibilities and true freedom all the while blaming their self made insecurities on others.
Using religious phrasing in this manner is a terrorist act, something we’ve come to understand to be fearful and cowardly acts by religious zealots including christians.
> According to the “new government” we have had since January, the first amendment only applies to Obama supporters. >
Obviously it doesn’t apply only to Obama supporters, or they would have carted you off already.
ARE YOU TOTALLY OUT OF YOUR MINDS? DO THE WORDS “FREE WILL” HAVE ANY MEANING TO ANY OF YOU? THERE’S A HINT OF REALITY/KNOWLEDGE ON THIS SITE…….BUT CONSIDER THE PEOPLE YOU’LL TARGET RE. THESE ITEMS. OBAMA DOESN’T NEED YOUR “PRAYERS” NOR YOUR QUOTED PSALMS, LET’S CALL THEM WHAT THEY ARE…. CURSES OF SOME IMAGINED SORT. TIME IS FLEETING,AND THIS CRAP CATCHES UP WITH YOU. USE YOUR SENSE FOR SOMETHING USEFUL….READ THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, FREEDOM DOESN’T LEAK OUT THROUGH PSALM 109.8…..BUT THE IGNORANT CITIZEN WHO BELIEVES IT BECOMES THE ENEMY OF FREEDOM.
Very simply it is against the law to threaten the life of the President of the United States. I sure hope someone is tracking who has these bumper stickers, might well be people who bear watching.
How about producing T-shirts with this message: “Pray for the Country – Psalm 82:3-4 (“Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”)
Any hint at ending the life of a President or any government official should be dealt with as a crime and those advocating with disgusting religious signs and posters should be prosecuted.
This is MORE than political discourse – this is a prayer for the death of an elected President.
This goes above and beyond free speech.
To threaten anyone’s life is simply not acceptable, and to give those who threaten a life a forum makes Cafe Press not acceptable. I have purchased a lot of shirts from you in the past. I will never purchase anything via Cafe Press in the future. The fact that this even is a question is ridiculous.
I’m an atheist who voted for Obama.
I see nothing wrong with this t-shirt.
The Psalm consists of a person wishing death upon a powerful man and cruel treatment for the dead man’s widow and children.
Leave the veiled death-threats for someone with less class to make, CafePress.com – this is below you.
Giuss
Phx, AZ
this is not acceptable on your tee shirts..the President’s life is being threatened everyday by evil people.. Scripture can be taken out of context to mean whatever the world’s mindset desires..but God will punish those that use His Word for anything that has to do with hate..step up for America,and stop selling these shirts
Whether or not Cafe Press should sell this material has nothing to do with the First Amendment. Cafe Press is a private enterprise. The First Amendment restricts the government from infringing speech, but it has no influence on whether a private enterprise, e.g., a newspaper, or Cafe Press, must facilitate the expression of a particular idea, or can refuse to have nothing to do with it.
So, in the end, it is up to the discretion of Cafe Press whether to handle this material or not.
I myself think that the material should not be sold. While coded, the intended meaning is pretty clear… it is at worst a call for assassination and at best an imprecatory prayer that the President meet an untimely end by other means. As such, it is plainly beyond the bounds of decency and legitimate political discourse. I would say the same thing if the President were George W. Bush, John McCain, Dick or Mary Cheney, Sarah Palin….
I cannot understand how anyone at your website could have even considered making money off of a sick suggestion to assassinate the President of the United States of America. That’s what it is, plain and simple. That IS a treasonable offense.
I too purchased products from you in the past but no more since you obviously have no sense of decency or morals. I am appalled!
I will never buy anything from Cafe Press again. There are plenty of your competitors who do not think killing a man (who has young children) is political commentary. Pathetic.
I will never again buy a product from your company. This is disgusting and your poll is misleading. You need to show the WHOLE verse to have a fair vote.
This promotes MURDER.
This is not freedom of speech any more.
You are inciting the assassination of the president. Is this free speech ? Is this commendable ? Is this profitable ? Is it treason ? I find it Utterly irresposible and downright criminal. In any case, selling passages of the bible suffers a total lack of CLASS.
People take things out of context all the time. To me this means his days in office…let them be few, like ONE TERM. I’m not sure if we can afford that! NO ONE should think killing anyone is appropriate, but I saw enough merchandise suggesting Bush be assassinated over the last 8 years. And I pray all the time for Obama to live a long life, because the only things worse than him in the White House would be Biden and/or Pelosi!!!
I for one will boycott anything to do with Cafe Press until they remove these horrible and outrageous slogans on their good, that threaten the “well being” of the President of the United States. This is sooo much more than suggesting Bush be impeached.
Very simply it is against the law to threaten the life of the President of the United States.
>It’s fair political speech. Period.>
>>I’ll grant your right to this sort of ’speech’ if you’ll grant our right to throwing you in prison for threatening the President.>>
It’s so amusing to note the outrage at any hint of disagreement or dislike of the Obama administration when the posters of Bush as Hitler, folks burning Bush in effigy and Assassinate Bush shirts were a-ok to those same people for so many years. Imagine how full the prisons would be if all THOSE folks were sent to prison. Mighta saved us a lot of trouble NOW, huh?
I see Cafe Press takes its content seriously and wish no harm to humans.
Please explain your promotion of bludgeoning a seal hunter, furthermore we Inuit hunt seals for lively hood…Am I correct in Cafe Press promoting Bludgeoning of Inuit, therefore promoting Hate Crimes to be committed to Inuit?
I look forward to the response from the administrators of this sight.
>How about producing T-shirts with this message: “Pray for the Country – Psalm 82:3-4 (”Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”)>
Whoa! A real radical!!
I’ve had a good deal of respect for CafePress owing to the many positive items I’ve seen for sale there. I have zero criticism for y’all accepting the Psalm 109:8 product. You’re a big firm, stuff slips through, these things happen. When people criticized it, you responded well, promptly and intelligently.
My respect for y’all is confirmed and I will not hesitate a moment to purchase products from you again.
>All I can say is waaah. We have become a country of whiners. According to the “new government” we have had since January, the first amendment only applies to Obama supporters. When anyone disagrees with Obama they are attacked and criticized. I hope everyone that voted for him is happy now that our country is going down the toilet in a big hurry.>
This is what pisses me off the most: people who run their mouths, and when people call on them they drape themselves in the first amendment. Yes, the first amendment does protect your right to your views: it also protects the rights of others to call you an idiot for possessing those views. Which I will indulge now.
You, sir, are an idiot.
I’m a ‘free speech radical’. Speech, however tawdry or ‘inappropriate’, must not be trammeled.
Action is another matter. Remember the “cry ‘fire’ in a crowded theater” test. The action is immoral. [Whether it is or should be unlawful is another matter.] One right response is to point out why the action is immoral, and another to contest it as undermining the Republic.
The Psalm 109:8 circulators are not engaged in political discourse. They are advocating assassination. Anyone who facilitates their advocacy is complicitous. Advocacy and facilitation may be ordinary crimes, for which there are ordinary remedies. Advocacy and soliciation of murder is not political discourse, but an immoral and illegal act.
[...] results of the Cafe Press poll were 76 percent calling the slogan “overly inflammatory and inappropriate” and 22 percent [...]
[...] here and tell Cafe Press.com to stop merchandising assassination. Share and [...]
Did anyone even read Psalm 109:8 verse?
The designer did not say read passage 9 thru whatever… He/she said verse Psalm 109:8.
Wake up stop putting more into it.
It only says “The psalm reads:
“Let his days be few; and let another take his office.”
I would like to thank you for discontinuing the sale of these items.
I was intending to buy stocking stuffer gifts from Santa for my kids from you this Christmas. Whether or not I do depends on if you pull this despicable material. If you do not, I can assure you I will never buy anything from you again, and I will encourage everyone I know to follow suit. This is a genuine sacrifice by me because I think you carry a lot of great stuff that I would like to get in the future. But you are being outrageously obtuse if you think this Psalm 109 stuff is anything but hideous assassin-trolling that does only bad for the health of political discourse, to say the very least. It is disingenuous of you to weigh the matter with a public poll. Do the right thing immediately. Pull it now.
Given the political climate, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to read or comprehend the subtext of the message. It’s past offensive. It only take one white power nutjob to say he got his marching orders from cafe press.
Thank you for discontinuing these items. Its one thing to sell merchandise that expresses a political opinion but this psalm is a call for the assassination of our president. Disgusting and horrific.
I can’t believe that people seriously see an assassination threat in this. It only says may his days be few and may another take his office – period. Tying it to its larger context should not be done – biblical citations are supposed to be just that portion that’s cited – not the rest of the reading. I would think that most people would know that – but maybe some just can’t take any criticism of Obama. They better get used to it.
There is simply no question — the intent behind this “call for prayer” is blatantly un-Christian. It goes directly against the teachings of Christ, on all levels of its usage. It is Old Testament vengefulness, and those who use put it on their products, or defend its use in any way, are telling the world that they are not Christians, they’re something ugly that Jesus Christ would not tolerate in His presence (though he may forgive them). They have lost the honesty of their faith, and fallen into an abyss of hypocrisy.
I pray they see the light that Jesus truly shines (or, as Mark Twain once put it, “Christianity is a wonderful idea — if anybody would ever try it.”
“let his wife become a widow”…
Think on those words as you look at the praying hands. The sheer murder behind the words, and this is to be seen as free speech.
Speech isn’t a free-for-all.
There no comparison between the sentiment of a Psalm that goes on to cite “let his wife become a widow” and “No W” or “impeach Bush” for the acts committed during his time in office.
One prays for death, the other two are legal actions. Remove Bush via impeachment or vote.
I’m appalled, but that is the horrifying and tragic difference between Republicans and Democrats.
You all are such *good* christians. I am so glad that I am not one of you, and that my country, the USA, grants me that right.
I voted for free speech. It could easily be taken to vote Obama out of office in 2012, the next presidential election. I am 67 and lifelong atheist humanist with a life time of poltical and social activity. Long time ACLU member and active socialist. Many of us wear shirts,are active against wars,peace activity,oppose death penalty,”tree huggers”,animal rights activist, oppose nuclear power,do not beieve in Jesus as a savior and “God” plus a lot more that highly upsets many people. I was an auto worker for 44 years and upset many people with my activities.
It simply states that the designer no longer wants him in office. Had they meant for the FOLLOWING versus to be included, it would have read so. People create whatever propaganda they choose in order to watch over anything they deem to be personally offensive. If you don’t like it, oh well….don’t buy the shirt or come up with a response. Get over it.
A bit over the top, but I have seen some nasty things directed at pretty much all politicians. We all have our double standards, I suppose, and moreover, a right to buy and wear whatever we want.
Overly nasty, perhaps, ironically unchristlike. But people will say what they want.
Traitors
the shirts are evil
I will pray for the haters.
Please for the love of God, I BEG YOU, GIVE US THE STRENGTH TO LIVE IN PEACE. AMEN,
I LOVE YOU
While the one passage is innocuous, reading further does seem to take it to an extreme. It does seem to call for an illegal (and immoral) action. Someone commented on here the Bible should only be taken passage by passage….that is a sure way to be able to twist it to individual interpretations.
It really bothers me that there is so much hatred. I often wonder when there is going to be peace.
You know, I really think it needs to be pointed out that it DOES NOT say Psalms 109:8 – whatever. It ONLY says Psalms 109:8. Had this shirt been available during W’s terms in office. These same people would have thought it humorous and witty….
To all who say this text and follow it, may you fall into your own trap. May God hold you accountable for using His Holy word in such a manner to wish harm and destruction one a person out of hatred. May the hatred you hold in your heart fall on your head. For all the idiots that are believing and wishing this to happen to my President and His family, be careful because God will always protect His children from the wiles of the devil.
I will seriously pray for whoever conceived this. It is sick, mean-spirited, and clearly shows that terrrorism – local terrorism is being sown on American soil.
140 Scott believes that this would have been regarded as witty if it had been aimed at W. The main point is: It didn’t occur then and wouldn’t have occured then. Move-on.org ran a political cartoon contest then and someone submitted a Hitler related cartoon aimed at Bush. It was voted down swiftly and immediately by move-on members. That’s a distinct difference. Here people are having to plead to get this threat removed.
You thinskinned liberal lapdogs! “They” were quoting verse 8, not verse 9, therefore your inclusion of the “fatherless” and “widow” wishes goes beyond what was intended. Also, getting back to your attitudes when Bush was in office, your side produced a movie that advocated his assisination!
Now that Obama has advanced the war effort in Afganistan, perhaps this slogan was started by the MoveOn crowd? If only they actually were able to read the Bible!
“It’s so amusing to note the outrage at any hint of disagreement or dislike of the Obama administration”
It’s so amusing to note the hypocrisy and projection of certain wingnutty conservatives. We were talking about impeaching Bush for real crimes and all folks like you could do was scream about what traitorous haters we all were. Short memory, huh? Furthermore, if you’d wake up and see what’s really going on, liberals are some of Obama’s biggest critics because we feel he’s been too moderate, compromising and timid on many issues.
“your side produced a movie that advocated his assisination!”
Our side?? One person decides to make a movie, which for all I know was just speculative fiction (I honestly have no idea what movie you are talking about) and therefore it’s a fact to you that every liberal wanted the assissination of Bush? This is ridiculous. “All that ‘asissinate bush’ stuff”, my fanny. Impeachment is not assissination.
Oh, and of course a bunch of you all want to cherry-pick verses out of context and not look at broader implications, and pretend that that’s a defense. Your heroes at Fox Noise are great at that game. They love to use it to attack Dems, but when the sound bite is put in context, hey, guess what? Means something pretty different, huh? And if it suited your purposes, you’d change your tune, too–”oh, but you can’t take just that one line…” Shifty SOBs.
What is most amazing to me is how few people recognize the passage, FROM the new Testament. It was quoted by Peter after Judas Iscariot KILLED HIMSELF, after realizing what he had done.
I truly cannot see how is it that the designer is calling for someone to assassinate the president.
Frankly, considering how Obama’s mentor, Jeremiah Wright, misapplies Psalm 137, I don’t see how anyone can object to a TEE-SHIRT like this one.